Welcome to the Sherlock's Weekly podcast with me, Georgie Corridge Cole.

This week I'm joined by Charlotte Collins, Torquardona and special guest, Cat Farmer.

Better known as, does my mum look 40?

Apparently.

Definitely doesn't look 40. Wow, that depends on what angle you look at it. Welcome, how fun to have you here. It's so lovely to be here, thank you. Well, it's a very cheery. I'm feeling like everyone's very cheery today. It's Monday and the sun's shining and it's not going to last, so we're just going to make the most of it for today. One day only. Let's talk about the personality traits that could be preventing you from earning more money.

I wanted whether this was something that we should be discussing in the show that's podcast.

But anyway, here we are, because apparently there are a number of key characteristics that stop women from reaching their full earning potential.

They include high tolerance for low pay, willing to work for free. I think

there's a difference between interning for a while that can really pay off and working for free.

Undereximating your worth, fear of negotiation and on it goes. How did you feel about this piece?

So Charlotte and I had a quick chat before we came in. I felt this is kind of driven towards more of those in our industry. I think it really depends on what industry you work in. I think as in an all-female office. I think it's very different for us versus men in the city. I think there are loads of things that are profession-related, like when it comes to men and women's differences, that don't necessarily apply to us in quite a female industry. industry, but I'm actually not sure that this is one of them because negotiating for your salary is kind of independent of the industry you work in. And I can certainly relate to some of these. I don't know. I think that's quite normal not to negotiate your salary. We had a brief conversation on this in advance of this podcast. And I said, and I was discussing this with a friend the other day, I am staggered how few people that work

for me negotiate their salary. And as an employer, but there's kind of one moment where you are

in control as the employee and it's when you're offered a job. And that's the moment where the

employer has gone, I want that candidate in my organisation, and it is your sweetest moment, I guess, to kind of negotiate your salary. So I've always been staggered how a few people... I'd just be scared to put off the employer. I'm nervous. I see a head hunter. Go on. So I really think, and what I would say, interesting about lots of those, they're not necessarily female-centric. You can say the same for lots of men as well. I think it's a personality trait that can be for men and women.

As a head hunter, did women push back and say they've offered me X and I want another 5% or whatever it is?

Well, we would negotiate on their behalf, so that's what we would do. But it was very much both men and women. I mean, interestingly, I did work in a very male-dominated environment, where men were the salespeople and women tended to be the designers. And that's just how it worked. But I think both would come back, or we would say, you know, this is what you're worth, this is what we think we should ask for you. And, you know, and vice versa. they would come back and say this is what we think I'd like, this is what I'd like, and we'd go back and say, you've got apt to, you know, hope of getting that.

So, you know and vice versa they would come back and say this is what we think I'd like this is what I'd like and we'd go back and say you've got apt to you know so you know but it's men and women it was it was exactly the same yeah I also think it's a real confidence thing a lot of these yeah say five six years ago I probably would have resonated with all of these but now like a few years on I feel like in a strong opposition where I would I would feel happy I'm more comfortable negotiating with my salary. But I think the best time to negotiate, you know, the time when you get the biggest pay rises is when you move jobs is not an existing job. Unfortunately you're only ever going to get an X percent pay rise within a job generally. I mean I'm generalising but that's my experience. The thought that my husband would ever take the first offer he got for a job, like that to him is ludicrous. It also amazes me how many people in sales have worked for me that have never negotiated their salary. You always want to say, I'm going to take that job offer away because you haven't tried to do. But sorry, I know you're joking, but that's the reason that I would be scared to then negotiate. negotiate. So you do it once and then you do it once and I don't think you ever say

occasionally I've said no that's it that's the reason that I would be scared to then negotiate. So you do it once and then you do it once and I don't think you ever say, occasionally I've said no, that's it, that's the bucket and it feels fair, but if someone pushes that once, I think you'd always go back and offer them a bit more money. If you think I'm going to lose that person, you've made the decision. You've seen however many candidates and then you've made the decision you want them in your business. Anyway, the tips were do your research, find out what the industry standard is and what the realistic expectation for a salary would be. I also love the point of don't use emotional arguments to decide whether you ought to be paid more. Business owners are pragmatic and no one will ever pay more than you need to. And finally, I think just as women, you need to just have those money conversations because it doesn't help that we're British and we're female. Both of those things go against us, don't they? What about improving office productivity and trying a walking meeting? Because apparently there are no sweet words these days. Then walk with me. Sitting is the new smoking. And apparently it breaks down business hierarchy to go for a walking meeting instead. Kat, what do you think about that? Ooh, I don't know about that. I'm quite lucky that most of my meetings actually happen over coffee so they're not in an office environment, which I do think is actually much more conducive to be more relaxed, be more honest, to be more open. So maybe not necessarily walking, but going out of the office to have a coffee. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, that's a really good point. Going back to the walking thing, I think the idea we were talking about money and having those money conversations, I think it's hard to look at someone in the eye to have those money conversations. So actually, if you could man up and say,

hey, I want to have a money conversation,

let's do it in a walking gathering.

Yeah, totally. I think there's something far easier you can kind of look down. Definitely. When we were younger, my mom used to like, drive us back to school on a Sunday night, and that was always her time. And she said she'd have the best chats with us,

because we all used to open up.

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