“Usually in high conflict, the conflict becomes the whole point. So you make a lot of mistakes and you can miss opportunities that would actually be in the interest you are fighting for. The reason you got into the fight to begin with, whereas good conflict is the kind of conflict where again, you can be angry, you can be yell, you can have radical visions for the future. You can and must, you know, organize and protest and hold people accountable. But you do it much more skillfully. You make fewer mistakes because you're not essentially being controlled by the conflict. You're not in the trance of high conflict. And it's, you know, it's not easy to stay in good conflict. Everybody is gonna visit high conflict, even if it's for, you know, a few minutes, but you don't wanna live there because you, you and your cause will suffer.”  So says Amanda Ripley, investigative journalist, podcast host, New York Times bestselling author and the queen of conflict - good conflict, that is. Amanda’s most recent book - High Conflict: Why We Get Trapped and How We Get Out - draws on her years of experience trying to make sense of conflict on a personal and political level—particularly in this heightened time of OUTRAGE.  Not all conflict is bad, Amanda tells us. In bad conflict, what she calls high conflict, the conflict becomes the whole point, an us vs. them mentality that takes on a life of its own and leads participants down a path of perpetual anger without resolution. Good conflict, on the other hand, goes somewhere interesting as genuine curiosity and deep listening leads to better mutual understanding. So how do we make the shift? In our discussion, Amanda arms us with a mind-opening new way to think about conflict that will transform how we move through the world. We talk about what it means to get curious about what lies beneath the surface of a conflict; how our own unresolved internal conflicts often inform our external conflicts; as well as the importance of engaging in deep listening in order to make others feel truly heard. In a world engineered for misunderstanding, Amanda gives us faith that individuals, and even entire communities, can end the doom loop of outrage and blame if they can learn to really hear each other.  EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: What would it be like if you got what you wanted?… Conflict entrepreneurs… High conflict and the death of curiosity… Deep listening and making others feel heard… MORE FROM AMANDA RIPLEY: High Conflict: Why We Get Trapped and How We Get Out The Smartest Kids in the World: And How They Got That Way The Unthinkable: Who Survives When Disaster Strikes - And Why Listen to Amanda’s Podcast, How To! on Apple Podcasts and Spotify Amanda's Website Follow Amanda on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices