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Today's conversation on Back Porch Theology is sort of an encore with Natalie Grant and Bernie

Hermes because we simply couldn't fit all the wisdom bombs they dropped regarding hanging

on to hope when the miracle you prayed for

seems delayed into one episode. Plus, since we've had lots of DMs and emails from y'all

requesting content on how to have more Jesus-shaped relationships, we thought it'd be a great

idea to ask Nat and Bernie a few questions about what they've learned

from 20 plus years of marriage, especially given the added stress of extensive travel, public

scrutiny, and infertility.

Back in the 90s, I had the privilege of working at a ministry based in Colorado with a gentleman

named John Eldridge, who went on to become a prolific author and spiritual

leader. I read something recently John wrote that seems pertinent since we're about to delve

into what Christophormic relationships look like. He wrote this, we are, all of us, utterly

committed and deeply devoted to our style, our way, our approach to life.

We have absolutely no intention of giving it up, not even for love.

So God creates an environment where we have to.

It's called marriage.

Although I've never been married, that comment still thumped me

upside my hard head with conviction because in my experience, all Jesus-shaped relationships

require us to both see and surrender our self-centeredness. Mind you, sometimes my narcissistic

nature seems harder to get rid of than the dandelions in our yard,

but I love what Nat and Bernie have had to say in this episode, and it's really helping me lay down some of my

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