Hey, Dild listeners! It's been a rough couple of weeks, I hope everyone is staying safe

out there. I'm bringing you today in an interview that I actually did a few months ago with Naomi

Klein, the author of Shock Doctrine. I had some technical difficulties with the files and then

time got away from me, so it's coming a little bit later than I expected it to, but it actually

completely fits with the time that we're in right now. We're seeing the Shock Doctrine play out in

the government and the fossil fuel industry's response to both the coronavirus pandemic and the

protests, and Naomi will talk a little bit about what exactly that means and how it reminds her of

what happened in the aftermath of Katrina. We also got into how all of that plays into her thoughts

on the Green New Deal and in general on the climate movement and what needs to be done to move it

forward. Hope you enjoy our conversation that's coming up in just a minute after a message from

this episode's sponsor. I'm Amy Westervelt and this is Drilled.

Hi, Naomi. Thanks so much for being here. I really appreciate it. I'm really excited to talk to you.

So I wanted to start with maybe getting a little bit of your kind of origin story when it comes to

climate. How did you find your way to the climate crisis? So I'm not somebody who has been writing

about the climate crisis for my entire career. I began certainly for the first more than

decade focusing on economic injustices, human rights abuses. When I wrote my first book, No Logo,

which came out 20 years ago, I was tracking the rise of the globalization of labor and this kind

of new-ish way of producing the products that fill our lives, which used to be focused in a factory

where the whole production process would take place and often that factory would be relatively

close to where the products were consumed. We started to see this rage for outsourcing in the 1990s

where our products were being made now through a web of global contractors and subcontractors.

And so while I was focused on the effects on workers and driving down of labor standards,

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