Name Your Mattering Project & Find a Path to a More Meaningful Life (w/ Rebecca Goldstein)
Chasing Excellence
Ben Bergeron & Patrick Cummings
4.8 • 2.2K Ratings
🗓️ 26 February 2026
⏱️ 62 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
What drives the most successful people to their greatest achievements—and sometimes their darkest moments?
Alongside writer and philosopher Rebecca Goldstein, we explore the mattering instinct - the fundamental human need to justify why we deserve attention in our own eyes - and discover how identifying your mattering project transforms this universal longing into a meaningful life path.
We unpack why this one psychological force is responsible for both our greatest accomplishments and our most destructive ideologies.
We uncover the mattering map’s four core strategies—heroic strivers who pursue excellence, socializers who find meaning through connection, competitors driven by zero-sum thinking, and transcendents grounded in spiritual purpose—and learn how recognizing which strategy aligns with your temperament reveals where you’ve been chasing unfulfilling projects.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hello, hello. Real quick, before we get into the episode, a simple request. If you like this |
| 0:04.4 | episode, if you like any of the episodes we put out every single week, we would absolutely love it |
| 0:08.1 | if you would share it with one friend. That's it. Just send them a text, send him an email, |
| 0:13.3 | mention it next time you see them at the gym. Let them know that they may also like chasing excellence. |
| 0:18.6 | There's no better way for us to grow our crew here at the show |
| 0:22.4 | than if folks like you who are already listening, share it with somebody who should be here. |
| 0:27.6 | If you've got a friend who's not listening, please consider sending them this episode or any of your |
| 0:31.6 | favorite episodes. We thank you in advance. Okay, let's get into it. |
| 0:39.1 | Hello and welcome back to the show. |
| 0:41.5 | I'm Patrick. |
| 0:42.3 | I'm excited for you to be here. |
| 0:44.0 | I'm excited for this conversation. |
| 0:46.2 | I'm joined by Rebecca Newberger Goldstein. |
| 0:49.1 | How are you? |
| 0:50.4 | I'm great. |
| 0:51.2 | Happy to be here. |
| 0:52.3 | I'm good. |
| 0:52.8 | I'm happy to have you here. |
| 1:11.7 | A little bit of bio on you for folks. So we've got a little bit of context. You're a philosopher and a novelist. I kind of want to talk to you about what it means to be a philosopher these days. We may get to that. You're a MacArthur fellow for your work dramatizing the concerns of philosophy through imaginative storytelling. You are the recipient of the National Humanities Award, |
| 1:16.0 | awarded by President Obama for bringing philosophy into conversation with culture. |
| 1:19.5 | You are the author of 11 books spanning philosophy and fiction, |
| 1:23.3 | and the book we're going to talk about today, recently released. |
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