N.T. Wright: Heaven Isn't the Endgame — New Creation and God's Homecoming
Good Faith
Good Faith
4.8 • 1.9K Ratings
🗓️ 19 February 2026
⏱️ 58 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Is The Greatest Shift in Christian Theology Going From Heaven to Earth?
Heaven isn't the point of the gospel—and N.T. Wright challenges the "accept Jesus and escape earth" narrative of Christianity. Curtis Chang talks with Wright, leading theologian and prolific author, about New Creation and his latest book God's Homecoming: The Forgotten Promise of Future Renewal, asking whether the Bible's promise is the Kingdom of God on earth—or simply going to heaven when you die. They examine the "royal priesthood" calling, what this means for life after death and suffering now, and the true purpose of Christian faith.
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03:43 - The Continuity Between Old and New Testaments
05:05 - Reject Platonism and Embracing New Creation?
08:04 - A Vision More Demanding Than The "Ticket To Heaven" Gospel
13:48 - What Does This Mean For Grace, Works, and Human Vocation?
19:53 - Divergence on the Meaning of The Kingdom of God
27:24 - The Problem of Evil and the "Now and Not Yet"
34:59 - A Pastoral Response to Heaven-Focused Theology
40:41 - How Are Heaven and Earth Interlocking Realities?
47:59 - The Royal Priesthood: Humanity's Biblical Mandate
51:47 - Tom Wright's Future Projects and Reflections
Scriptures:
- Revelation 5:9-10 (ESV) - kingdom + priests reign on the earth
- Exodus 19:6; Deuteronomy 7:6; 1 Peter 2:9 (ESV) - royal priesthood
- Genesis 1-2 (ESV) - creation "very good"; humanity's vocation
- Revelation 21–22 (ESV) - new heaven/new earth; God dwelling with humanity
- Romans 12:2 (ESV) - renewing of the mind
- Romans 8:21–23 (ESV) - creation set free; redemption of bodies
- Malachi 3:1 + Isaiah 40:3 (ESV) - prepare the way; the Lord coming to his temple
- Psalm 8 (ESV) - humanity crowned with glory/honor; vocation
- Ephesians 4 (ESV) - new humanity; community ethics
Mentioned in This Episode:
- N.T. Wright's book God's Homecoming: The Forgotten Promise of Future Renewal
- N.T. Wright's book Surprised by Hope
- What is the Bar Kokhba Revolt?
- What is the Mishnah?
- "Teach Me, My God and King" (George Herbert / "The Elixir")
- Tom Holland's book Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World
- C.S. Lewis' book Miracles
- Scot McKnight's book Reading Romans Backwards: A Gospel of Peace in the Midst of Empire
More from N.T. Wright:
Past Conversations with N.T. Wright:
- Good Faith ep. 207: N.T. Wright Explains Ephesians: The Church, Christian Nationalism, & the Armor of God
- Good Faith ep. 128: The Unseen Spiritual Powers Shaping Our World (with N.T. Wright)
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Revelation 5, worthy is the lamb that was slain, because by your blood you ransomed humans for God, |
| 0:09.0 | and a modern Western Christian would say, so that we can go to heaven and stay there forever and ever. |
| 0:13.7 | No, and you've made them kings and priests, and they will reign on the earth. |
| 0:19.9 | God's eventual purpose is for humans to be sharing his wise stewardship over the world. |
| 0:27.7 | That's the royal bit. |
| 0:29.8 | And of course, Jesus redefined royalty. |
| 0:32.4 | King of the Jews above his head on the cross says it all, actually. |
| 0:35.7 | This is what true kingship looks like. |
| 0:52.5 | Music his head on the cross, says it all, actually. This is what true kingship looks like. Welcome to the Good Faith podcast. We're friends who follow Jesus, help each other make sense of the world. |
| 0:58.5 | I'm your host, Curtis Chang. This podcast is produced by a nonpartisan 501c3 organization. |
| 1:05.5 | There are some things in my life that just never get old, no matter how many times I experience them. |
| 1:12.4 | On that list includes a bite of Trader Joe's bar of 70% dark chocolate with almonds, |
| 1:18.6 | or watching with my wife another episode of the Great British Baking Show, |
| 1:23.3 | or watching a Shohei Atani at bat. |
| 1:27.0 | But perhaps on my top list of things that never get old |
| 1:31.3 | is whatever constitutes my latest conversation with N.T. Wright, or Tom, as he is informally known. |
| 1:38.9 | I believe Tom is the most important theologian and biblical scholar working today, and frankly, I don't even |
| 1:44.8 | think it's close. I've had the pleasure of hosting Tom on multiple good faith episodes, |
| 1:50.4 | and I invite you to check them out in our back catalog. In this conversation, we discuss |
| 1:56.5 | the very important ideas from his latest book, God's Homecoming, the Forgotten Promise of Future Renewal. |
| 2:04.6 | Here's my conversation with Tom. |
| 2:08.4 | Tom, welcome back to the Good Faith podcast. |
... |
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