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I wanted to start by talking about the true crime genre and the popularity of the podcasts and documentaries about real-life murders.

What do you make of our obsession around that, given your experience?

Yeah.

I mean, I guess I have two thoughts come to mind.

One is people's imaginations are always captured by mystery.

And so many of these true crime podcasts and television shows are focused on sort of unsolved crimes.

And I think that that population of survivors

is a particularly vulnerable population.

Because people who have gone through this experience,

they can feel like their loved one gets lost again.

You know, they're not remembered with reverence or respect.

Clinical psychologist Patricia Harney knows grief and the torment of not knowing what happened to a loved one, both professionally and personally.

So I was 21.

I was a senior in college when my boyfriend was murdered,

and a person who killed him was not found until, not identified.

Well, even that's complicated.

But I'll say not found until 35 years later.

What happened to Patricia's boyfriend has never been the subject of a true crime podcast.

This is the first show she's spoken to about it. But what she wants you to know is the element that's often left out of true crime coverage is the nature

of the grief the people left behind suffer.

They want their stories told, but so often the story focuses on the mystery.

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