You talked about forgiveness and this is something I specifically wanted to talk to you about

because I think forgiveness has been so central to my healing and when I say that to people they're like,

what? Because I think there's this sort of common idea that forgiving is being like, it's cool, don't worry about it.

And that's not the forgiveness that you talk about.

So what is the real forgiveness?

And why is it so fundamental, as you say, between going between stepping more into this phase two?

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I think forgiveness is a bit like anger.

It's really misunderstood.

I have a spiritual teacher and she says that forgiveness is something that needs to come from the soul.

It doesn't really come from the human part of you.

It comes from our soul part of us. And I really like that because I get it. It's almost like we need

help from something bigger than us, if you like, to kind of have the capacity, especially if we've

been really badly hurt and traumatized.

But the thing with forgiveness is, first of all, no one has the right to say you should forgive.

You know, it makes me want to poke people in the eyes when they say that.

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