I would jump in there. I'll give you an example of what I think could work.

How about brands start actually bringing value to people? So the one way to penetrate the phone

is actually being a utility instead of being a marketer.

So I'm not convinced that we're going to text with brands because brands have been trying it for seven or eight years.

And I think we learned a lot about, stick with me for a sec. I think that brands have tried to penetrate this space for a while.

I think we learned a lot about email. I think we are heavily reluctant to let people

penetrate our phone number. But if any brand told me, here's what you're going to get.

If you let me message you, I can give you parenting advice as a baby shampoo.

Well, now you're starting to build a value prop that isn't a clever, ha, ha, commercial.

So I think the cost of entry to penetrate our cell phone number is quite high.

And I think that brands in general have to understand that time has become the asset that we most care about

and that we have to stop interrupting people from their day to day.

That ship is sailed. The golden era of the 70, 80 years of radio, television, and other things that we've done where we can interrupt you.

You're reading the article and you turn a page and there's a car at and you have to go to the next place.

It's not 1960 fucking five anymore, right? Like people don't have time anymore.

And so we value it. And so if you're going to take my time, I want value.

So the answer is permission and adequate value exchange.

An enormous, enormous upfront.

You can penetrate your phone number, right?

An enormous promise upfront that you actually deliver on so that you can rate.

You're only as good as your last step at, right?

Like if you're great as a shampoo brand giving advice and after eight months, you hit them hard with like, go to Walmart and buy our shampoo.

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