Hello, there I'm Chuck Todd and this is the Chuck Todd Casper.

We're now two months into the war on Ukraine and it's worth trying to put this era in context

for Russian politics under Vladimir Putin.

My guest today is Mikhail Kortakovsky.

He's an ex-out Russian oil tycoon who was once the richest man in Russia.

In the early 2000s during Vladimir Putin's first years as president, Kortakovsky supported

one of Putin's political rivals and was subsequently punished for it.

He was arrested on charges of tax fraud and later also charged with a bezzlement and money

laundering.

He spent more than a decade in behind bars before being released in 2013 and then expelled

from the country.

Mikhail, welcome to the show.

Hello.

Tell me the first time you met with Vladimir Putin.

I don't remember.

I didn't really remember that.

You know, I don't even remember.

It wasn't that big a deal for me at all.

That event.

When you met with him as president and he found out you weren't going to support him.

Tell me about the conversation you had with him or did you?

Well, I was after all at that time just a businessman and as such my involvement in the political

...