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The Next Big Idea

Michael Pollan on the Mystery of Consciousness

The Next Big Idea

Next Big Idea Club

Science, Social Sciences, Society & Culture, Education

4.41.3K Ratings

🗓️ 23 February 2026

⏱️ 81 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Five years ago, Michael Pollan — the acclaimed author of The Botany of Desire, The Omnivore's Dilemma, and How to Change Your Mind — went looking for an answer to one of life's great mysteries: "How does three pounds of brain matter generate subjective experience?" The result is his luminous new book, A World Appears: A Journey Into Consciousness, which comes out tomorrow. Great journalists like Michael have a nose for story and a knack for timing. Both are on display in A World Appears. It's a page-turner teeming with maverick characters. It's a startling look at the emerging science of plant sentience. And it's an urgent exploration of a question we can't afford to ignore: Could consciousness — that is, "subjective or felt experience," the trippy miracle that when we open our eyes, a world appears — emerge in AI? * * * A World Appears is the Next Big Idea Club’s latest selection. To get an early copy, a personal note from Michael, and an invitation to a Q&A with him on March 10, become a member at nextbigideaclub.com⁠⁠. Code PODCAST gets you a super secret discount (spoiler: it’s 20% off). If you enjoyed this episode, check out our conversations with Antonio Damasio, David Chalmers (here and here), Sara Walker, Paul Bloom, Robert Sapolsky, Sam Harris, and Gaurav Suri and Jay McClelland. Watch The Next Big Idea on YouTube! You can find our episodes ⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠. Follow Rufus on ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠, subscribe to our ⁠⁠Substack⁠⁠, or send us an email at ⁠podcast@nextbigideaclub.com⁠. We love getting fan mail. Sponsored By: Bitdefender — Get 30% off your plan at bitdefender.com/idea Factor — Head to ⁠factormeals.com/idea50off⁠ and use code idea50off to get 50% off your first box Granola — Get three months free at granola.ai/idea Shopify — Start your $1/month trial at ⁠⁠⁠shopify.com/nbi⁠⁠⁠

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hey folks, quick note before we get started.

0:02.4

Our conversation today is a special one.

0:05.1

Every year at the Next Big Idea Club, we pick the six most important books, the ones we think everyone will be talking about.

0:12.4

And we send early copies to our members with a personal note from the author.

0:17.4

Our first selection of 2026 is A World Appears, a Journey into Consciousness by the one

0:23.6

and only Michael Pollan, who's our guest today. If you'd like to get an early copy of the book

0:28.6

and join our live conversation with Michael on March 10th, please join us. We'd love to see you there.

0:34.2

Just go to next big idea club.com.

0:41.1

I'm Rufus Criscom and I'm Caleb Bissinger

0:42.5

and this is the next big idea.

0:45.1

Today, Michael Pollan

0:46.7

takes us on a journey into consciousness.

1:17.6

Okay. One night in 1998, two men made a bet at a bar.

1:21.9

But this wasn't your usual bar bet, because these were unusual men.

1:28.9

One of them was David Chalmers, an Australian philosopher best known for coining the hard problem of consciousness.

1:35.4

How is it, he asked, that a few pounds of gray matter between our ears gives rise to thoughts,

1:42.2

feelings, and sensations? It was a question he believed scientists lacked the tools to answer.

1:47.1

His drinking partner, a German neuroscientist named Christoph Koch, he disagreed.

1:57.2

So he bet Chalmers a case of wine that within 25 years, scientists would find the physical footprint, the neural correlates of consciousness in the brain.

2:01.6

25 years later, they met on stage in New York City. Oh my God, it's a case of wine.

2:04.6

I can see that off.

2:05.6

You lost.

...

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