Welcome to Pushback. I'm Aaron Mate. We're here today with Max Blumenthal. He is the senior editor of the Grey Zone, author of many books, including his latest, The Management of Savagery.

Welcome, Max. We're talking today about many topics. Let's start with Venezuela. You just had an exchange on a program called the Heat which airs on

CGTN which to me really captured the mentality at the heart of the US war

right now on Venezuela because you spoke to in this exchange spoke to both a

former Obama official and then also a member of the right-wing Venezuelan opposition.

Before we go to the clip, why don't you set it up for us?

Well, it was a remarkable opportunity and one that I wouldn't have had in, you know,

U.S. corporate media where no critics of the U.S. regime change policy towards Venezuela

are allowed on air. So, you know So you have to go to state TV to actually

have a real debate. And I got to be in the room with one top level former NSC official who was

involved in crafting Obama's policy towards Venezuela and the former mayor of the Chacao district of Caracas, Ramon

Mucacho, who was mayor basically during the most violent Guarimbas, the most violent

riots against the government and presided over some of the most horrific crimes against

Chavistas, against supporters of the government in

that district, he basically whipped up the Guarimbas that saw the burning to death of

Orlando Figuera, a black man who was identified as a Chavista and then had gasoline spilled

on him and was burned to death. And so,

you know, I wasn't going to waste the opportunity, although I had very little time to not question

the people I was in the room with about how they could justify a policy towards Venezuela

that was quite clearly harming average civilians, masses of civilians.

We're now two weeks out from the Trump administration announcing a total embargo on Venezuela,

but this wouldn't have been possible without the 2015 decision by the Obama administration

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