The episode you're about to listen to was released back when the mere Christians podcast was called the call to mastery

Now if you love mere Christians, you're still going to love these older episodes because the majority of each

conversation focuses on how the gospel influences the work of our guests. With that disclaimer out of the way, please enjoy the episode.

Hey everybody, welcome to the Call to Mastery. I'm Jordan Rayner. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most

exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Each week I host a conversation with a Christian who's pursuing world-class mastery of their craft.

We talk about their path to mastery, their daily habits and routines, how the gospel influences their work.

I've been saving today's guests.

I've been holding them back for a long time for the right moment and this felt like the right moment. You guys finally get to hear from my friend

Matt Perman, he's the author of what's best next, how the gospel transforms the way you get things done.

He's also the director of career development at the King's College in New York City.

Prior to that, Matt served for 13 years as the director of strategy for John Piper's

ministry desiring God. Matt's one of my favorite people. He's thought so deeply

about how the gospel shapes our work and our attempts to be productive.

So I recently had mad on the show to talk about his rich theology of gospel-driven productivity,

why we shouldn't let go and let God, but instead trust God and get going.

And we also talked about the important difference between following your passions in your work and following your interests.

You guys are going to love this terrific episode with my friend,

Matt Permin.

Matt Permin,

Matt Permin, finally, have you on the call to mastery.

Welcome, my friend.

Thanks for having me.

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