Hello and welcome to Overthink.

The podcast, where we make a man out of you.

I'm Ellie Anderson.

And I'm David Peña Guzman.

Okay, well, Mulan notwithstanding, masculinity is a moment of crisis.

Maybe that's why we need the Mulan moment.

In fact, maybe that's what we need to make a man out of you.

Because it's not clear, out of you specifically.

Because it's not clear, I think you specifically, because it's not clear,

I think, to many men today what masculinity looks like and what their relationship to masculinity

should be. I think this is partly why there's been this rise of right-wing influencers and what's

known as the manosphere. Because I think, like when I talk about masculinity with my friends friends who are, you know, to my knowledge,

not caught up in the Manistphere discourse, even they, you know, like really well-meaning men,

often feminist with commitments to leftist politics, maybe even gender abolition, they don't

know how to relate to masculinity themselves.

They find that they have a fraught relationship with it and they're just sort of like,

I'd rather ignore it, right?

Which is not a great way of going about things either.

So I think you have this rise of either the explicit adoption of right-wing masculine ideals

through the manosphere or you have a sort of

fraught, like, I don't know what to do with this. And so I'm just going to kind of ignore it,

relationship with masculinity among many men today. Yeah. And I think the grasping at straws that

...