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Today we are looking at someone whose ideas have had profound implications on everything in modern life,

from religious beliefs to the role of women, from how the state controls citizens,

to who was taught to read and who was not.

I think it's fair to say, Peter, that today we are tackling one of history's most consequential figures. That's Donald Trump. It's got to be with Trump. You say consequential, Afwa, and you have Donald Trump. I mean, all presidents, all famous people are consequential, right? We are in the era of meaningless fame. Maybe that's a topic for another day. That is a topic for another day. We should definitely do the legacy of the people who don't have consequence. I think why not? Actually, it's kind of funny that you bring up Trump here, because

we're definitely not talking about Donald Trump, but there are areas of overlap between these two

men, actually. Might be controversial to say, but I see it. Well, let's talk about that. The person

we're going to talk about today was a rebel and a revolutionary. He was a man who was brimming with self-confidence and self-belief. So, you know, there's something that you can see the parallels. I think not just with Trump, but with a lot of the people we talked about too. But it's also somebody who I think is fair to say was a great talker, but maybe not

such a great listener, but definitely somebody who changed the course of history.

We are talking about Martin Luther.

From Legacy, I'm Peter Frank O'Hen. I'm Afwa Hirsch. And this is Legacy, the show that explores the lives, events and ideas that have shaped our world, and asks whether they have the reputations that they truly deserve. This is Martin Luther, part one, revolutionary, hero and villain.

Okay, Afwa, Martin Luther.

Big fan, any baggage with any history with Luther?

Yeah, I got baggage, Peter.

I got a lot of baggage.

Well, on one side of my family are Presbyterians from Ghana, very devout. Really? I didn't know that. Yes. Well, they kind of dabble in between Presbyterian from Ghana, very devout. I did know that.

Yes. Well, they kind of dabble in between Presbyterianism and Methodistism. I thought if you're Presbyterian, you're allowed to dabble. Isn't that kind of rule one? This is Ghana we're talking about Peter. You know, like, faith is where it's at and why restrict yourself to one when you can have a few? And none of those churches,

...