But they should be saying, you know, when we get this under control, we're not just going to walk away from our

responsibilities. It should be a generic route. That is where the government has fallen down. I'm not saying they

should open it immediately because we have so much irregular movement at the moment.

Hello and welcome to Marshall Matters with me, Winston Marshall, at The Spectator.

Well, I've been exploring taboo topics and one of those topics that will surefire get you called a bigger, far-right, hard-right, racist.

And apparently this week also a homophobe is the issue of immigration.

And Suella Braverman has just done a speech in America, which has captured the imagination and the

ire of the nation.

And so to discuss it and discuss the state of immigration in the UK, I have the pleasure

of speaking with author of the books,

The British Dream, Success and Failures of Post-Wall Immigration,

which celebrates its 10-year anniversary to this year,

head-hand, heart, the struggle for dignity and status in 21st century,

and the absolutely superb and seminal, the

road to somewhere, the populist revolt and the future of politics. It is, of course, David Goodhart.

David, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for the invitation, Winston.

Well, I'm normally sort of try and ease my guess into it, but I thought I'd start

with a tough question for you.

How is the amateur a cappella group going?

Well, I'm hoping to form one with you as the maister in the next few weeks.

No, I've been in a couple of singing groups in my time,

and I'm looking to form a new one,

...