This program is sponsored by the Covley Foundation based in Los Angeles, California.

The Covley Foundation is dedicated to advancing science for the benefit of humanity.

I'm Alan Alder, and this is Clear and Vivid, conversations about connecting and communicating.

These are people who took their marriage seriously, but holy cow, the trouble they had.

There's no way you get through marriage without the valley.

Think you have to buy the package, right?

I like what the Viola Davis said.

She said, you're not married when you walk down the aisle.

Your marriage doesn't really start until you're sitting across from this person.

And he's doing this thing that really annoys you. That's when you're there, big stars.

That's Marlow Thomas and Phil Donahue.

All three of us have spent time together in front of cameras, but it's our friendship that goes back decades behind the cameras that's been the source of a lot of laughing and thoughtful conversations over the years.

We got together on Zoom a little while ago to talk about their new book, which has a theme that most of us will find pretty fascinating.

This is so great to be talking with two of my oldest friends about your latest book, about how to make a marriage last.

And it's only a couple of days after your own 40th anniversary, right?

Right, right.

Happy anniversary to both of you.

Thank you.

So the book is a bestseller, national bestseller.

One of you heard from folks who have been reading it.

Are they saying, oh my god, I never thought of that?

Or I've been trying to do that all along, and it has worked.

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