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RiskReversal Pod

Markets are Hard to Handle with Mike Wilson of Morgan Stanley

RiskReversal Pod

RiskReversal Media

News, Investing, Business, Business News

4.6757 Ratings

🗓️ 1 December 2023

⏱️ 67 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Mike Wilson joins the hosts for this episode of On The Tape. They talk about the November stock market rally (3:00), classic late-cycle behavior (6:30), earnings (8:00), the bond market (11:30), why the soft landing is the worst possible scenario for stocks (13:00), the single biggest risk for 2024 that investors aren’t taking seriously (13:50), what consensus could get wrong next year (18:00), the employment cycle (24:30), sentiment indicators (30:30), volatility (33:00), private credit (34:20), stock market concentration (37:30), M&A (41:00), and the appeal of U.S. markets as a safe haven (41:30).  Later, Guy, Dan, and Danny discuss the Elon Musk DealBook interview (45:00), the meteoric rise in the S&P 500 (47:45), GM’s $10B buyback (51:20), M&A (56:00), the energy space (59:45), JPMorgan survey shows investors are as bullish they’ve ever been (1:02:45), LME wins High Court ruling over canceled nickel trades (1:04:45), and Danny’s NFL picks (107:30) — About the Show: On The Tape is a weekly podcast with CNBC Fast Money’s Guy Adami, Dan Nathan and Danny Moses. They’re offering takes on the biggest market-moving headlines of the week, trade ideas, in-depth analysis, tips and advice. Each episode, they are joined by prominent Wall Street participants to help viewers make smarter investment decisions. Bear market, bull market, recession, inflation or deflation… we’re here to help guide your portfolio into the green. Risk Reversal brings you years of experience from former Wall Street insiders trading stocks to experts in the commodity market. — Check out our show notes here Learn more about Ro body: ro.co/tape See what adding futures can do for you at cmegroup.com/onthetape. — Shoot us an email at [email protected] with any feedback, suggestions, or questions for us to answer on the pod and follow us @OnTheTapePod on Twitter or @riskreversalmedia on Threads — We’re on social: Follow @GuyAdami on Twitter Follow Danny Moses @DMoses34 on Twitter Follow Liz Young @LizYoungStrat on Twitter Follow us on Instagram @RiskReversalMedia Subscribe to our YouTube page

Transcript

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0:00.0

Welcome to the On the Tape podcast. I am Dan Nathan. In just a minute, Guy, Danny, and myself, we sat down with the I-I-ranked number one chief equity strategist for Morgan Stanley. That is Mike Wilson. We talk about his 2024 outlook and some of the things that he got right and got wrong in 2023. And then Danny, Guy and myself hit a bunch of single stock stuff that caught our eye this week from GM to some M&A in the biotech space and a whole host of other things.

0:29.6

So stick around.

0:34.6

So Mike Wilson is with us.

0:35.6

Every quarter you come on, regardless of what's happening, I find the market extraordinarily hard to handle. Your work is extraordinary, as we've said. Dan mentioned you just got voted again, number one in what? What is that thing? I-I, number one. Which is remarkable because you know why? That's your peers that vote on that and they obviously think the world

0:55.2

of your work as do we. So as we sit here with the S&P 4550 thereabouts, it's surprising

1:01.6

me, where do you sort of gauge things right now? Because I know your thesis hasn't changed.

1:05.9

And quite frankly, all the things that you thought would happen are actually getting worse.

1:09.8

It's just not manifesting itself in the stock market.

1:12.2

Yeah, it's been an interesting year, frustrating, as you say, because the fundamental call that we've had is actually played out in spades through most of the economy.

1:20.8

Now, of course, there's these 10 stocks that have done a terrific job of managing costs, and that's, you know, effectuated a pretty good earnings recovery for the S&P

1:29.1

because there's such a, you know, large weight in that. But the average stock, and, you know,

1:32.0

most stocks are not having a good year because it's a difficult operating environment. The earnings

1:35.6

pictures pretty crummy. The macro environment is, I say, tenuous at best. The only thing really

1:40.9

going for the market right now is that we're at the end of the Fed hiking cycle,

1:49.0

and we're doing the Pavlovian response for like the fifth time, by the way, since a year ago.

1:53.2

You know, we made that call that, of course, almost took Danny to the hospital a year ago,

1:54.4

where we got bullish.

1:57.0

We got bullish on the Fed pivot a year ago.

1:59.2

Okay, it kind of worked into the year end.

2:01.2

And then I feel like we've had the Fed Pivot call like four times. This is the next one. This is probably the real one. This is the one where

2:05.2

they actually probably are done. They probably did their last hike in July. So let's go back

2:09.9

to October because September and October, I felt like, okay, the thesis really is playing out.

...

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