Welcome back, I'm Ian Masters, and this is Background Briefing, available 247 at backgroundbriefing.org.

And joining us now is James Thurber, the University Distinguished Professor of Government and Founder and Former Director of the Center for Congressional and Presidential Studies at American University.

He's the author of numerous books and more than 80 articles and chapters on Congress, interest groups, and lobbying, campaigns

and elections. And he's the author of Congress and Diaspora Politics, the influence of ethnic

and foreign lobbying, and most recently campaigns and elections American style. Welcome to

background briefing, James Thurber. Good to be here. Thank you, Ian. Well, thanks for joining us.

And there's quite an exodus of members of Congress who are retiring now, both from the Senate

and the House.

And it could tip the Senate and the House one way or the other.

And it seems that a lot of us to do with the frustration of polarization and paralysis

and the toxic partisan nature of politics now on Capitol Hill.

But in general, looking at this list and we can go through the list, James, is it a reflection of the fact that the good people, the traditional

sort of sensible people that could work across the aisle are leaving and that means that the

radicals and the bomb throwers have more and more influence?

In other words, are they, are the crazies driving out

the sensible people? Well, there's higher exiting than usual. It's higher than the last three

election cycles and higher, really the last 30 years is one of the highest times so far is troubling.

And I think that the sensible people in the Republican

party are leaving. There's some Democrats leaving also. I think the picture of the Senate is likely

to be very difficult for the Democrats. And so I think they may be even others who are thinking about leaving there.

It may turn and become Republican. The House of Representatives looks pretty competitive. It may flip and

become Democratic. And so there's some Republican members there that are upset with their far right. They don't want to go home and

...