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This is npr's LifeKit. I'm Ruth Tam.

Anyone who works knows that a boss can make or break your experience on a job.

I had one. I had one great boss. I've had some joy in the fun. A lot of bad.

There's one person who I'd say was phenomenal.

That's Kimberly B Cummings. She's a career and leadership development expert and the author of next move,

Best Move, transitioning into a career you'll love.

Kimberly went from studying her bosses to becoming one and that process shaped Heshi approaches being a leader at work.

I know me as a manager, one of the things I always tell my team is like, I want you to tell me.

I don't care if it's good. I don't care if it's bad. If you're angry, if you're sad, or you're happy,

please tell me one of the worst things I feel is that if I learn about someone who's unhappy on my team from someone else.

Kimberly didn't start out as a manager. No one does.

But all her experiences, both as an employee and as a boss,

helped her understand what makes a truly great leader and how to embody those qualities at work.

So on today's episode, best tips for managing people.

Whether you're managing employees or shaping your relationship with your boss by managing up,

Kimberly has tips on how to do both.

...