The

The And working with Carolyn is interesting, I think, because she's much more of an actual, like a real person, like a citizen, like with ethics and journalism and stuff, where I'm just like, I'll judge people

and I'll swear at them and I'll snap judgments and like, oh, it's bullshit. And then later,

I was wrong about that. Sorry. Right. You know. Thanks for a good balance. It's a good balance.

It does. It's a good balance. It's a really, really good balance. And I tell like silly ghost stories

about demonic possession, you know,

and then here's Carolyn with like actual victims and, you know, with people that need to be

respected and stuff. And so it's a little fish out of water for me sometimes. But it's great.

And, and I've learned a lot. Lemon Auto Media, KSL podcast, those are our producing partners.

They are amazing.

Women-centered, focused people who helped bring this story to life.

Like Brandon's given showering me with praise and believe me, I love it because usually he's like, you know.

But really, it's all these, all these women that are just so, you know, but really it's, it's all these, all these women that are just so,

you know, really invested in telling true crime and, and telling stories that impact people

and not just like the most salacious things. Like, we talk about what happened to them in

detail. And it's not to glorify it,

but to say, like, what they went through, what they're still going through. And despite all of that,

you know, the two survivors, they have been at every trial. They've told this story time and time

again. And it's like, you know, the continuing trauma that

happens as a result of this. And so it's, it's just a, I'm just, we're so grateful to have such

amazing partners because, you know, these kinds of shows, as you know, they're super expensive

to produce. They're, they're, you know, in the podcasting world, you know, they're always acting

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