You want to give them less.

We love to give viewers everything.

We grab the viewers by the lapel,

say, love me, love me,

action, violence, pretty girls,

car crashes, and here's music

to tell you how to feel every second of the way.

And so you create very, very passive viewers

because everything's being done for them.

I'm Sean Fennesy, editor and chief of the ringer,

and this is the big picture, a conversation show

with some of the most fascinating filmmakers in the world.

First or formed is not the sort of movie

that undersells its metaphors.

That's what Adam Naman wrote on the ringer this week.

And if you know anything about today's guest

and the film's legendary writer-director Paul Schrader,

you know that underselling has never been

much of a problem for him.

In his screenplays for Martin Scorsese movies

like Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, and the last temptation of Christ,

and in the films he's directed, which include American Jiglo,

...