Welcome to the dispatch podcast. I'm Jamie Weinstein. My guest today is Jonathan Martin.

He is the Politics Bureau Chief and Senior Political Columnist for Politico and the author of

This Will Not Pass. Trump, Biden, and the author of this will not pass Trump, Biden, and the battle for America's future.

He is one of America's most sourced political journalists, so we discussed everything

about Trump world, what is going on behind the scenes in the

Vice President's campaign, what happened with Joe Biden and his decision to step down.

I think you're really going to enjoy this episode. I certainly learned a lot from it and

what to look for as we go towards 2024 presidential election just two months away.

Let's get right to it. Without further do, I give you Mr. Jonathan, Martin. Jonathan Martin, welcome to the dispatch broadcast.

Thanks for having me, Jamie.

Well, let's start with your column this week which has political media a buzz.

The title of it was if Republicans want to win they need Trump to lose

for the listeners who may not be familiar with the gist of the column,

what exactly did the column say?

The best key scenario for the Republican Party's health is that Trump loses and loses decisively.

It'll hasten the party going to rehab

and starting to kick the Trump habit.

Now look, here's the challenge.

A lot of the party doesn't want to go to rehab.

All right? They like it. They, you know, if you want to change your metaphor is like the dogs, like the

Alpo. They don't want to eat anything else. All right? They want more Alpo, more out of

more out about man, and so they don't want to give it up.

...