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I'm your host, Greg Sargent. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth testified on Capitol Hill on Wednesday,

and he faced a really striking takedown from Democratic Senator Elissa Slotkin.

At one point, she grilled him on whether he had given an order allowing members of the military

to shoot unarmed protesters if necessary. She also pressed him on whether the military has the

authority to arrest protesters. In both cases, Hegeseth stonewalled and obfuscated, which got us

thinking, why exactly does Hegeseth feel reluctant to reassure Democrats

and the broader public about the military's intentions toward civilians? Why does he feel like he can't do that?

We think it's because Trump would perceive it as a sign of weakness and in some sense as a betrayal of him,

and that itself reveals something deeply unnerving about the threat Trump and Magapose. Mara Donigan, a columnist for the Guardian,

has a great new piece that discusses how important the appearance of authoritarianism, the trappings of

fascism, art of the Trump project. So we're talking to her about all this.

Thanks for coming on.

Thank you so much for having me.

So let's start by listening to audio of Senator Alyssa Slotkin questioning Pete Hegseth today.

It's a bit long, but it's worth it.

Audio is courtesy of Aaron Rupar.

Listen to this.

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