Welcome to Hard Talk from the BBC World Service with me, Stephen Sacker.

My guest today is widely regarded as one of the greatest British legal minds of his generation.

Jonathan Sumpion, Lord Sumpion, began his career as an academic historian.

But he soon turned to the law and became a star barrister who handled a host of high-profile cases.

One saw him embroiled in the legal

fallout from Britain's decision to join America's invasion of Iraq. Another saw him represent

Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich in his legal fight with another oligarch, the late Boris Berzovsky.

He served as a judge on the UK's highest court of appeal, the Supreme Court,

for six years until 2018. And then, amid some controversy, he took up a non-permanent post as a member

of Hong Kong's Court of Final Appeal before resigning in 2024. Now he's written a book on the challenges of democracy and the rule

of law, which assesses the health and future prospects of liberal democracy in an age

increasingly defined by a rising tide of authoritarianism. With Donald Trump back in the White

House and adherence to international law

seemingly in retreat are the global prospects for constitutional democracy built on checks and balances

increasingly bleak. Well, Lord Sumption joins me now. Welcome to Hard Talk. You've written this book,

The Challenges of Democracy,

and as is the way with books, there's a time lag between writing and publication. So you wrote it last

year. I just wonder, as you sit with me today, whether you are now more worried about the state

of democracy. I was pretty worried when I wrote it and I still am.

Since then, of course, Donald Trump, who is probably the most autocratic president that the United

States has ever had, has been elected and that is causing ripples all over the world.

Has been elected, I guess, is the phrase that matters here.

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