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This is the Friends Vistory Debating Society. I'm John Bachelworth Michael Lejos, who is Germanicus.

I am Gaias John Bachelors. We're in London, I'm enjoying a cup of wine on a Sunday evening.

There's said to be plague and we're very cautious about going to the theatre later.

We will sacrifice to Augustus, but it's wise in these spring months to avoid any

threat of plague, even if it's just talk. However, we're speculating about this

event in the 21st century called the Counter-offensive. Germanicus, I have read and certainly

have heard that there is a faction in NATO, not only American faction,

that wants to take the opportunity of this conflict in Ukraine to finish off the Russian

resistance, really finish it off, and the Kremlin's hold on Russia, replace the general staff and

the cabinet and Putin. Move it towards, I guess you would say, an end, a war end, where

Jeffersonian democracy would break out in Russia, or some version of that. Not only Ukraine

joining NATO, but Russia joining NATO, a transformed Russia, probably transformed from the left,

so it would look like democracy, not from the right, so it would look like autocracy. But in any event,

to break the Russian war machine, your measure of that, does that sound a

an ambition that is achievable for NATO? It's not achievable without a World War III,

and the very things that NATO has done and that these tub-thumper war factions have achieved in

their approach by creating the Ukraine crisis and then driving it to a proxy war with Russia,

is that they have tended directly to achieving the very thing that they say they don't want,

they've united Russia, they've created now a Russian war effort that writ large has been highly

...