Logic, Creativity, and the Limits of AI: How Humans Think in Ways Machines Never Will

The Michael Shermer Show

Michael Shermer

Natural Sciences, Science

4.3 • 1K Ratings

🗓️ 18 November 2025

⏱️ 110 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

In this episode, Angus Fletcher explains why the human brain doesn't work like a computer and why our deepest strengths come not from logic or data processing but from imagination, emotion, and the ability to invent new futures. Drawing on neuroscience, Shakespeare, evolutionary biology, and his work with U.S. Army Special Operations, Fletcher shows how storytelling is the brain's oldest "technology," why intelligence is rooted in action rather than analysis, and what most people get wrong about creativity and common sense.

Angus Fletcher is a professor of story science at Ohio State's Project Narrative, the world's leading academic think tank dedicated to understanding how stories work. He earned his PhD from Yale, conducted postdoctoral research at Stanford, and in 2023 received the U.S. Army's Commendation Medal for his groundbreaking work with Army Special Operations on primal intelligence. He has also written screenplays for major Hollywood studios and networks. His new book is Primal Intelligence: You Are Smarter Than You Know.

Transcript

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0:00.0	You're listening to The Michael Shermer Show.
0:15.0	Hey, everybody, it's Michael Shermer, and it's time for another episode of the Michael Shermer show.
0:18.9	My guest today, the returning champion,
0:21.4	Angus Fletcher, he's a professor of story science at Ohio State's Project Narrative,
0:27.6	the world's leading academic think tank for the study of how stories work. He started off in
0:33.4	neuroscience, working for four years in a University of Michigan med school, neural physiology lab.
0:39.9	He started his research thinking that the human brain worked like a computer,
0:43.6	but then began to realize that the brain is more like a storytelling machine.
0:48.7	From there, he shifted his focus and went to Yale to get his PhD in literature,
0:52.3	where he studied Shakespeare, of course.
0:54.7	Then he moved to Stanford University where he met storymakers from Pixar and saw that they were
0:59.6	using many of the same techniques that Shakespeare used, which were also adopted by Steve Jobs.
1:05.8	From there, he went to Hollywood and wrote screenplays for major networks and studios, as you do
1:10.2	after you get your
1:10.8	PhD in literature.
1:13.5	And then he wrote his first book, Wonderworks, the 25 most powerful inventions in the history
1:18.2	of literature, which he appeared on this show a couple years ago to discuss.
1:22.3	And in 2023, it was awarded the commendation medal by the U.S. Army for his groundbreaking research with
1:29.6	U.S. Army special operations into what is called Primal Intelligence, which is the title of his new book.
1:36.6	Here it is, Primal Intelligence. You're smarter than you know. Thank God. Because I haven't been
1:41.7	feeling too smart recently. So, hey, Angus, nice to see you. How are you? It's great to see you again, Michael. Thanks for having me back on the show. So, you know, reading your book, this wasn't in your previous book. I don't think the story of your father. Just tell us a little bit who was your father and how did that influence, I mean, what happened to his life, which was really quite amazing.
2:02.2	And then how that influenced you and then pick up your own pathway from there.
	...

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