This is thinking in public a program dedicated to intelligent conversation about

front-line cultural and theological issues with the people who are shaping them.

I'm Albert Moa, your host and president to the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

in Louisville, Kentucky.

You know Rod Dreyer is a New York Times best-selling author.

His 2017 book, The Benedict Option, became one of the most discussed

volumes in recent Christian history. You can also find a thinking in public conversation with

him about that book. But today we're going to be talking about his

latest book, Live Not By Lies, and I think it's, if anything, an even more important book

than the Benedict option. You also know Rod Dreyer as a very influential writer online and in print for the American

conservative. He has a long career in journalism and as a public intellectual he is right now known as an author who is

raising some of the most important issues for intelligent Christians in the world

today he's made many media appearances across the waterfront to the mainstream media and it is my great

privilege to welcome to thinking in public. Rod Dreier, welcome to thinking in public.

It's great to be back.

You know, the last time you were on the program, you were here on the campus discussing your book,

The Benedict Option.

And, you know, that was a book that created just about as much conversation as any book written by a Christian can in today's moment in society.

I can only hope that the same thing is true of

live not by lies, your new book, a manual for Christian dissidents. And so I want to

start out by telling you that we had a fascinating conversation about the

Benedict option and some of that just has to come up in this conversation but I

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