Welcome once again to the Conversations That Matter Podcast. I'm your host John Harris

with a great interview. You're going to enjoy this today. We actually have had Aaron

Wren on before but not to talk about his new book and Aaron is a senior fellow at the

American Reformer he's the author of Life in the Negative World which is the book we're talking

about and you can find out more at Aaron Wren.com. Welcome once again Aaron good to see it.

Thanks for having me on. My pleasure. I read your book a copy of the book so people can

see it. Oh there you go. There you go. Yeah I can't do that because Kindle I have it on my Kindle phone I guess I got the same issue every author that I interview I've got the

ebook copy so I always tell them they have to have a physical copy if they want to they want to hold it up to the

camera.

Yeah, very wise.

So if people want the hard copy, then get that,

then get it on Kindle.

And I noticed Audible as well.

And I don't know if you're reading that.

There's an audio book.

I did not read it.

Okay. So, but. you hired someone to do it.

Morgan Freeman read Life in the Negative World. So.

It would have been nice. I have to ask you because I was on the airplane yesterday reading your book and I guess I've lived this to an extent and I probably would be categorized as the culture warrior in your book, kind of the new, very suspicious of

elites and institutions and that kind of thing. And so I feel like I've kind of lived through this and

and I'll just really quick aside illustration just to illustrate what we're going to talk about but I was coming home from a from a conference and without giving too many I don't want to give too many details about this at all but one of the

things that I ran into at this particular event is I was doing some work for

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