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Brothers and sisters, it's been a while since I've done the library chat and in shallah as you're where I'm trying to spice it up

do different things. Some of them involve conversations with other people. And as for panel just so happened that I was speaking with two

friends of mine, one of whom I met many times the other one I've only corresponded with, but there's definitely a strong friendship between us. We're talking about the same topics. And I thought to

panel it would make so much sense if the three of us can just have a frank dialogue and engage in a very very sensitive topic. And so that's exactly what we're going to be doing today. In shallah

we're going to be talking about a topic that really is so many of us in the muslim world and the in the activist field. We are debating and talking amongst ourselves. And that is really the reality of establishing and a type of Islamic political system. How feasible is it? How realistic is it? Is it something that is a part in parts of our tradition? If so, is it theological or is it filthy based? And if so, is it Tokefi? Is the methodology to do so in trying to the Shari'a? Or is it each

Dihadi? And if so, what level of priority does such a reality have? So these are very, very deep topics. And joining me today I have two very esteemed guests. First we have Imam Tom Fakini who converted to Islam in 2010, a year before he finished his bachelors of arts and political science from

Vassar College, then he went on to study at Jamastamiya in Medina, where I met him a number of times. I think for pizza, if I'm not mistaken, and also for burgers, but yes, I have a number of times when I used to visit and he was studying over there. And he obtained his B.A. from Kulitha Shari'a. And he then returned to America. And he's currently the research, your research director of Islam in society at the Akheen Institute here in Dallas. And he's also the resident scholar of Utika. Is that part of pronunciation? Utika or Utika? How is it pronounced? Utika.

Okay, Utika, I should know this. Utika musjid in New York. And he also teaches to see it and Islamic history online through legacy international online Islam high school. And of course, Imam Tom has already carved out a niche for himself online by talking about topics that you rarely hear being discussed by graduates of Islamic studies. And that is political science secularism, European colonialism and political theory. And so that's why I was talking with him back and forth. And I said, let's have a conversation. He said,

inshallah, for sure, that'll be our first guest in mom Tom, welcome.

Baraklafiqam, thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure.

And we also have with us Ustad Uthman Badr, who is the joining us all the way from down under Australia, Sydney, Australia. And he is the editor and research operations manager at

Umatik's institute and a long time student of Arabic and Islamic studies and continental philosophy. And he deserves a mobarak, a welcome, a special welcome from us because he has just finished a PhD in philosophy from Western Sydney University and the topic was a critique of the conception of secularity and the legitimation of secularism in liberal political thought.

And of course, Ustad Uthman Badr is very well known online. And that's how I got to know him by reading his post very deep, very analytical, very fair, very balanced.

I actually reached out to him a context, a number of friends of mine said, I need to get in touch with this person. I think that was three years ago, if a sheikh with man, I forgot them.

And we started corresponding, you know, back and forth. And at Hamdulillah, it's just been wonderful. And again, these are some of the similar topics we've been discussing.

So, I haven't yet physically met him because we're so far apart, but in Shallah, my next trip to Australia, we're definitely going to make some time. But Ustad Uthman, welcome.

And Shallah, JazakAllah. It's a pleasure to be here.

So, the way we decided we're going to discuss this is a very organic discussion. And Shallah, we're all going to begin by summarizing some of the thoughts we have.

Forgive us if they're not really very well thought out because these are, I mean, at least from my side, these are more generic thoughts than, you know, a actual lecture I'm giving.

But so we're all going to start off by 10 max, you know, 15 minutes or so. We summarize what our viewpoint is about political engagement about the establishment of a Islamic political system and pros and cons and how we view it.

And then after the three of us are done, inshallah, we will then have a organic conversation. Brothers and sisters, this is not scripted at all because I really want to engage with raw, you know, ideas and to see genuinely how we feel.

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