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The Remnant with Jonah Goldberg

Liberalism’s Sibling Rivalry | Interview: Michael R.J. Bonner

The Remnant with Jonah Goldberg

The Dispatch

News, Politics

4.76.6K Ratings

🗓️ 25 May 2026

⏱️ 65 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

For nearly three decades, Jonah Goldberg has rightly abused Canada for its many crimes: its adoption of the metric system, slanderous contentions about bacon, and dubious claim to Machias Seal Island, to name a few. Recent events have put Jonah in a more conciliatory mood, however, and he has resolved to bring more of our northern neighbors on the show.  Today’s token Canadian, Michael R.J. Bonner, joins The Remnant to talk about his recent book on liberalism. Michael and Jonah run the gamut, talking about Steven Pinkerism, liberalism’s virgin birth, Cold War liberalism, the Rawlsian turn, postliberal criticisms, subsidiarity, modern progressivism, John Stuart Mill, the religion of humanity, left-wing violence, third worldism, Justin Trudeau's lack of self-understanding, and the war in Iran.  Show Notes: —Michael R.J. Bonner - The Crisis of Liberalism: The Origin and Destiny of Freedom  —Steven Pinker - Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress —Samuel Moyn - Liberalism Against Itself: Cold War Intellectuals and the Making of Our Times —President Obama Delivers His Second Inaugural Address —Noah Rothman Remnant —Noah Rothman’s book —National Affairs: “Liberal Practice v. Liberal Theory” Buy your tickets ⁠here⁠ to see a live taping of The Remnant with Jonah Goldberg and Sarah Isgur. How ⁠to access⁠ your members-only Remnant feed. The Remnant is a production of ⁠The Dispatch⁠, a digital media company covering politics, policy, and culture from a nonpartisan perspective. To access all of The Dispatch’s offerings—including the Saturday Ruminant, audio versions of all our articles and newsletters, and Jonah’s twice-weekly G-File—⁠click here⁠. Instructions on how to set up your members-only feed can be found here, and if you’d like to remove all ads from your podcast experience, consider becoming a premium Dispatch member ⁠by clicking here⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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1:12.0

Ladies and gentlemen, can I please have your attention?

1:14.9

Can you digger?

1:22.4

Greetings, the listeners.

1:26.8

This is Jonah Goldberg, host of the Remnant podcast, brought to you by the dispatch and dispatch media.

1:29.1

We are continuing our deep deep spulunking adventures into the history of liberalism and what it is and what the crisis of it is

1:39.8

and imagine the serendipity of having michael Bonner on to talk about his new book,

1:46.1

The Crisis of Liberalism, The Origin and Destiny of Freedom.

1:50.9

Dr. Bonner has a defil.

1:55.1

Defill different than a PhD?

1:56.9

Yeah, a PhD is some sort of Germanic innovation.

2:00.4

Okay.

2:00.9

Defil is the real thing.

2:03.0

Okay.

2:03.4

So in the anglosphere, we reject that Teutonic filth and embrace this.

...

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