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So a pro-abundant life perspective is about building a family following the model that we see in the first chapter of the first book of the New Testament.

Joining us again on Takeaways is author and president and CEO of Kairnet, a pro-abundant life ministry. Rollin, thanks so much for coming back on takeaways. Great to be back. I think the last time we were together, we were virtually connected. Yes, yes, I was talking about that. And now here you are in the flesh. Absolutely. And it's the best way to be, right? You've got a new book that is just out, the alternative to abortion, why we must be pro-abundant life. I love that. As Christians,

obviously, we know where you're pulling that from, but why do you think it's important we move

from pro-life to the upgraded pro-abundant life? Well, you know, it's interesting because that

verse in John 1010 is Jesus's

wise statement, why he came. He came that we might have life and then have life abundantly. And when I

started working with Karen and I started to kind of take a look at the pro-life movement and think

about what we were doing there. And what became very clear to me was that we actually weren't

necessarily anchoring what we were doing firmly in Jesus's why statement. And specifically, when you look at that verse in the Greek and you look at what he's talked about in terms of life, he's talking about two types of life. Bias, B. IOS, where we get the word biology, and then Zoe, which is a unique type of spiritual life that only comes from a relationship with God. Okay. And what Jesus is basically saying in that verse is that I came to link your bias to my Zoe. Excuse me? Your beaas to my Zoe that you might. You came to link a BIAS with a Zoe. With a Zoe. That you might be heartbeats that are heavenbound. And what I realized was that, you know, you can be an atheist and be pro-life,

but we're called to do more than just save babies in that context. Yeah. We're called to reach them, build strong families, but also help them become disciples of Jesus Christ. And when you frame it this way and you move beyond being sort of pro-life to being pro-abundant life, what you actually are doing is you're focusing on God's design for family and you're linking it to God's call to

discipleship and and pro-life to being pro-abundant life, what you actually are doing is you're focusing on God's design

for family and you're linking it to God's call to discipleship. And that changes how you look at the

issue. And it actually puts the church at the forefront of the issue rather than the church at the

back of the issue, which is the way that it is in the public square. That makes so much sense.

And that Bias and Zoe that you just talked about with regard to the

definitions of life, well, that makes so much sense when we see the word death in the scriptures,

too, because you see Paul using different definitions. We understand that some people will die.

Well, Jesus said, even though a man may die, and yet shall he live. And if you believe in me,

you'll never die.

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