Hello, why nabbers. My name is Jesse Meekham with another episode of the

Wino Podcast and I'm here each week to obsess out loud about spending

purposefully saving aspirationally and even giving joyfully.

It all sounds to just these four ways of thinking.

They're all kind of bundled up into one, honestly, but it's a different

mental model. It's a different way of thinking through, well, what you want your money

to do. And there was a while ago, I mean years and years ago, like, I don't know, 2013 or something.

I wrote a really fiery post about why Dead is so atrocious and I kind of came out from like you it's an emergency, like you just, you do anything to get rid of it.

Since then, my message has tempered, but my feelings toward debt are as strong as ever.

It is insidious.

It is a robber that you have invited into your home and just said, hey, you know, stay a while and take your time looking at all of the obvious places for valuables.

Debt is not a moral thing.

It's just fundamentally hurts your ability to choose now what you want to do with your money because it has a claim on some of it.

And what happens is, in the moment now you are saying I will give up some of my future

Choosing future options without any of the information that I would get from here, now, here, and now into that future moment.

So you give up options now to create fewer options.

Well, no, let's say this. You grab cash now to create fewer options, well no let's say this,

you grab cash now to create fewer options later,

and you're doing so with by definition

substandard information because you are past you.

In the future you are past, present you in the future is past you, right?

I do not have as much information about life, about as I will tomorrow or even in an hour.

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