Leon Panetta on the Trump Administration’s Venezuelan Boat Strikes

The Political Scene | The New Yorker

The New Yorker

Politics, Obama, News, Wnyc, Washington, Barack, President, Lizza, Wickenden

4.2 • 3.3K Ratings

🗓️ 15 December 2025

⏱️ 28 minutes

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Summary

In the course of his long career, Leon Panetta was a lieutenant in the Army, a congressman from California, Bill Clinton’s White House chief of staff, Barack Obama’s director of the C.I.A., and later, his Secretary of Defense. David Remnick talks with Panetta about the current Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, the legality of the ongoing Navy strikes targeting civilian boats off the coast of Venezuela, and the problem with using the military as “the President’s personal toy.”

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Transcript

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0:00.0	You're listening to the political scene.
0:07.0	I'm David Remnick.
0:08.3	Early each week, we bring you a conversation from our episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour.
0:16.2	This is The New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker.
0:24.8	Welcome to The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick.
0:29.0	Some of Donald Trump's most alarming ideas concern military force and the almost unlimited latitude he grants himself as commander-in-chief.
0:38.7	Trump has talked about using the military against protesters.
0:42.5	In the 2020 election, there was the idea that troops might seize ballot boxes for a recount.
0:48.7	This year, he's deployed the National Guard into U.S. cities to assist ICE or to reduce crime,
0:53.9	and he's rebranded the Department
0:55.8	of Defense as the Department of War. Now Trump seems to be ramping up a conflict with Venezuela.
1:02.8	He says of President Nicolas Maduro, his days are numbered. This week, the U.S. seized a sanctioned
1:08.4	oil tanker said to be carrying Venezuelan oil,
1:16.1	and for months, the Navy has been striking and destroying alleged drugboats.
1:20.8	In particular, there's the matter of a second missile strike on one boat for the purpose of killing the survivors of the first strike.
1:24.0	Former military officials are saying that this is a war crime.
1:27.9	One of those sounding the warning is Leon Panetta.
1:31.3	Over the course of a long career in government,
1:33.8	Leon Panetta was a lieutenant in the army,
1:36.0	a congressman from California,
1:37.9	and a White House chief of staff.
1:40.1	He directed the Central Intelligence Agency under Barack Obama,
	...

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