Lawfare Daily: What Trump’s Middle East Trip Means for Gaza and the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, with Joel Braunold

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4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 16 May 2025

⏱️ 71 minutes

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Summary

For today’s episode, Lawfare General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Contributing Editor Joel Braunold, the Managing Director of the S. Daniel Abraham Center for Middle East Peace, for the latest in their series of podcast conversations delving into the latest developments relating to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and related regional issues.

This time, they discussed the state of the Gaza conflict, what Trump’s recent trip to the Middle East says about his relationship with regional leaders, his dramatic moves on Syria sanctions, his administration’s increasingly direct role in hostage negotiations with Hamas, and what it all means for the stability of Israel’s current government—among many, many other issues.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising.
0:04.4	To access an ad-free version of the Lawfare podcast, become a material supporter of Lawfare at
0:11.5	patreon.com slash lawfare. That's patreon.com slash lawfare.
0:18.2	Also, check out Lawfare's other podcast offerings, Rational Security, Chatter,
0:25.2	Lawfare No Bull, and The Aftermath.
0:31.4	It's not just give up the hostages, it's also ex-eye yourself and give up all of your arms,
0:36.5	basically fly the white flag of surrender.
0:38.8	That's different from just if you gave up all the hostages, the war would end.
0:42.0	And so I think that confusion also adds into sort of this feeling of what is it going on?
0:47.6	Like if Hamas agreed, if under the Wickcock proposal, you had all of the hostages be released 10 up front and 10 at the end.
0:53.7	And then the war ended, would that be enough?
0:55.9	For the Israelis, at least at this point, the answer is no.
0:59.1	It's the Lawfare podcast. I'm senior editor Scott R. Anderson with contributing editor Joel Brunnell, the managing director of the S. Daniel Abraham Center for Middle East Peace.
1:08.4	The question is, is that the political space and ingenuity within the political bounds of the current Israeli coalition to do that.
1:15.6	Currently, it would seem no.
1:18.6	You could have had the beginning of a process with the Saudis.
1:22.6	You could have had it if you had a government who was able to end the war on Gaza.
1:25.6	It was definitely there, but that opportunity, if the door hasn't shut, it's starting to close.
1:32.2	For today's episode, we sat down to discuss the latest developments in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict,
1:36.7	from the ongoing war in Gaza to President Trump's recent trip to the Middle East.
1:41.3	So, Joel, for the last year, really, let me close to two years now, we've been doing
1:45.7	these quarterly or so check-ins on a whole range of development centering around Israelis,
	...

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