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So we go out through this field, and I'm standing kind of on a road above it a little bit,

looking out in this field, and they start lining up and handing up teaky torches.

And then they light them all in unison, and suddenly you can see it's a massive line of my nationalist, like, with lit torches, all sneaking through this field.

It's the Lawfare podcast. I'm Catherine Pompilio,

associate editor of lawfare, with El Reve,

correspondent at CNN who covers right-wing extremism and the all-right.

But January 6th was like grown-ups, elders,

people who clearly had jobs, like people who were wearing nice winter coats, people who could be like my aunt, you know, and just seeing them so possessed by these ideas that

again, that I didn't feel like they even understood the origins of.

Today, we're talking about Reeves' book entitled Black Pill,

how I witnessed the darkest corners of the internet come to life,

poison society, and capture American politics.

To get us situated, what is your elevator pitch for this book?

What is it about?

I mean, originally, I was like, I want the

subtitle to be, why did all this crazy stuff happen? The elevator pitch is how, like, a very obscure,

small part of the internet created a very powerful culture that eventually took over all of politics. It spiraled

...