Lawfare Archive: Jim Baker on AI and Counterintelligence

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4.7 • 6.4K Ratings

🗓️ 2 December 2023

⏱️ 49 minutes

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Summary

From September 25, 2018: The United States has become the global leader in both defense and private-sector AI. Inevitably, this has led to an environment in which adversary and ally governments alike may seek to identify and steal AI information—in other words, AI has become intelligence, and those who work in AI have become potential sources and assets. And with intelligence, comes counterintelligence.

Jim Baker, a Visiting Fellow at the Brookings Institution and former FBI General Counsel, is part-way through a series of essays for Lawfare on the links between counterintelligence and AI, two parts of which have already been published (Part I and Part II). On Monday, Jim sat down with Benjamin Wittes to discuss his work on the subject. They talked about how to understand AI as an intelligence asset, how we might protect this valuable asset against a range of threats from hostile foreign actors, and how we can protect ourselves against the threat from AI in the hands of adversaries.

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0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising.
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0:08.0	become a material supporter of Lawfair at Patreon.com slash Lawfair. That's Patreon.com
0:16.4	slash Lawfair. Also check out Lawfair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, lawfare no bull, and the aftermath.
0:30.0	May I have your attention please you can now book your train tickets on Uber and
0:39.4	get 10% back in credits to spend on your next Uber ride.
0:44.2	So you don't have to walk home in the rain again.
0:48.6	Trains now on Uber.
0:50.4	T's and C's apply.
0:51.3	Check the Uber app. I'm Keal.
0:54.0	I'm Caleb Benjamin, Internet Law Fair with an episode from the Law Fair
1:07.1	archive for December 2nd, 2023. Over the past couple of weeks the Board of
1:12.1	Open AI ousted its CEO Sam Altman on the apparent
1:15.5	grounds that he was not taking AI safety concerns seriously enough, only to rehire
1:19.8	him after the vast majority of the organization's employees threaten to resign.
1:24.2	This week, A Eugenio Lostri, Alan Rosenstein, and Chey Sharma, unpacked the chaos in its implications
1:29.2	in an article on lawfare.
1:31.1	For today's archive episode, I picked an episode from September 25, 2018, in which
1:36.5	Benjamin Wittis sat down with Jim Baker to discuss how to understand AI as an intelligence asset.
1:42.0	How we might protect this valuable asset against a range of
1:44.3	threats from hostile foreign actors, and how we can protect ourselves against the threat of
1:48.2	AI in the hands of adversaries. I'm Michaela Fogle and this is the Law Fair Podcast September 25th 2018.
	...

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