Hello and welcome to the G0 World podcast.

I'm Ian Bremmer, and this is usually where you can find extended versions of my interviews on public television.

But today, I am bringing you something special, a conversation with former U.S. Treasury Secretary and renowned economist Larry Summers.

After days of global turmoil, not seen since the beginning of the pandemic, it is clear

that President Trump's tariffs are taking quite a toll on the global economy and they're

spiking the collective blood pressure on Wall Street.

But just how significant a moment is this?

Are we just seeing some necessary pain before the gain,

or are we at an economic turning point not seen since World War II?

As Summer says in our interview,

markets have spoken with the particular eloquence and force.

We also talk about why certain institutions, from law firms to universities universities are finding it so difficult to speak up against President Trump.

So let's get to it. Here's my conversation with Larry Summers.

Thank you. Larry Summers, good to see you, my friend.

Good to be with you, Ian.

So I always like finding out how irritated you are at any given time. I usually think there's at least a baseline that's always there.

But like on a scale of 1 to 10 in response to the last few days of tariffs, tell me where

you are.

11 or so.

This is probably the worst, most consequential self-inflicted wound in U.S. economic policy since the Second World War.

Now, if this were turned around, if Trump on the back of this in a couple of days, you know, he says he wants to negotiate with everyone,

now says that China actually wants to have a conversation, can't figure out how.

...