I'm Jeffrey Rosen, president and CEO of the National Constitution Center, and welcome

to We The People, a weekly show of constitutional debate.

The National Constitution Center is a nonpartisan nonprofit chartered by Congress to increase awareness and understanding of the Constitution among the American people.

On today's episode, we explore Kaiser versus Wilkie, a case argument. the case

argued before the Supreme Court at the end of March.

The case involves a challenge to the administrative deference doctrine

known as our deference, that may sound wonky and

dear we the people listeners our is a u e r but what's at stake could be nothing less than the future of the post-New Deal administrative state.

In other words, the ability of administrative agencies like the Environmental Protection Agency

or the Veterans Affairs Agency to get an this very wonky but very important case are two of America's leading

administrative law scholars. Jonathan Adler is the inaugural Johann Verhi

Memorial Professor of Law and Director of the Center for Business Law and Regulation

at the Case Western Reserve University School of Law. He is the author or editor of many books

including Business and the Roberts Court and is a senior fellow at the

Center for the study of the administrative state at the George Mason University's

Antonin Scalia Law School. He filed an amicus brief on behalf of the petitioner James Kaiser in the Kaiser case.

Jonathan, thank you so much for joining.

Good to be here.

And Ron Levin is William R. Orthwine, distinguished Professor of Law at Washington University in St. Louis School of Law,

where he specializes in administrative law and has published widely in that field.

He is a senior fellow in the administrative conference of the United States

and the co-author of several case books on administrative law including

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