meta_pixel
Tapesearch Logo
Log in
The Story

'Kill-ology': Training US police officers on how to kill

The Story

The Times

Politics, Uk News, News, Long-form Audio, Global News, In-depth Journalism, Daily News, Exclusive Interviews, Audio Storytelling, News Analysis, Current Affairs, Investigative Reporting, Daily News Podcast

3.91.6K Ratings

🗓️ 17 July 2020

⏱️ 26 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

David Grossman is one of America's most prolific and controversial police trainers. His courses on 'kill-ology' put violence and the act of killing at the heart of law enforcement. In the aftermath of Black Lives Matter, Grossman's methods have come under question. 


Host:

David Aaronovitch


Guest:

Laura Pullman


Clips:

ABC, CBS, Warner Bros., Cannon Air Force Base

This podcast was brought to you thanks to subscribers of The Times and The Sunday Times. To enjoy unlimited digital access to all our journalism subscribe here.


Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

What should a police officer be like?

0:06.0

He encourages police officers to beat their chest and look over the city and let their kind of metaphorical superhero cake flutter in the wind.

0:14.1

As Black Lives Matter protests continue and as many Americans call for a rethink of how policing should be done,

0:21.2

we look at the philosophy of one of the US's most successful police trainers.

0:30.0

He wants to teach people how to be emotionally and spiritually and psychologically prepared to kill on the job.

0:37.0

You're listening to stories of our times from The Times and the Sunday Times.

0:41.0

I'm David Aromovich. Today, Killology, an American way of policing. Have you resolved in your heart that you were fully prepared to snuff out of human life?

0:59.0

I'm looking at a YouTube video of a rather vigorous man in his late 50s in dark shirt and jeans standing in an

1:05.6

auditorium addressing a seated crowd of mostly men some in uniform many with close

1:11.2

cropped hair.

1:17.0

He's quite animated. And he has a flip chart in front of him

1:20.0

on which he's writing in big blue letters, figures like 98%, 1%, 1%, 1%.

1:30.0

And 1%. An old Vietnam vet, an old red retirement. and one

1:33.3

Vietnam vet, an old retired colonel told me one time, just one sentence and we've run with it ever since.

1:38.2

And it turns out the 98% refers to the number of people in society who he says and he now writes this in red a sheep

1:47.0

98% of it's a sheep. He said most people in our society are sheep.

1:55.0

Decent gentle creatures who can only

1:57.6

heard just by action or extreme provocation.

2:00.3

And then he writes against the other 1%, they're sheepdogs.

2:05.0

And he says, sheep dog, I am a predator too.

2:08.0

He said, I am a predator too.

2:11.0

And now he comes down off the stage

...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from The Times, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of The Times and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.

Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.