Ken Burns & Sarah Botstein on Finding Hope in America’s Brutal Beginnings

On with Kara Swisher

New York Magazine

Society & Culture

4.2 • 3.2K Ratings

🗓️ 17 November 2025

⏱️ 66 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

In “The American Revolution,” a new six-part docuseries airing on PBS this week, filmmakers Ken Burns and Sarah Botstein take a deep look at the American Revolutionary War and the years before and after. They debunk many of the idealized myths we tell ourselves about the country’s founding and the complex motivations of the men who championed independence. At once critical and patriotic, it examines America’s history in ways the Trump administration would rather paper over. Kara, Ken and Sarah talk about the ways George Washington was both a deeply flawed man and integral to American victory in the war, how enslaved African Americans looked to the British for hope of freedom, and why it’s unfair to paint all Loyalists to the British Crown as traitors. They also talk about why there’s still a lot of reasons to find hope in America’s origin story today. Questions? Comments? Email us at on@voxmedia.com or find us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Democratic socialists don't kill Jews. National Socialists kill Jews. I'm not worried about
0:05.8	Democratic Socialists. I'm worried about dictators.
0:09.7	It's on.
0:20.3	Hi, everyone, from New York Magazine and the Box Media Podcast Network.
0:24.2	This is on with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher.
0:27.1	My guest today are filmmakers Ken Burns and Sarah Botstein.
0:31.0	The first episode of their six-part documentary series,
0:33.7	The American Revolution, premiered last night on PBS and continues running through Friday.
0:38.9	It's a deep, nuanced look at the American Revolutionary War in the years before and after.
0:43.9	Over the course of 12 hours, Burns and Bott Stein challenged many of the neat stories we tell
0:49.0	ourselves about the country's founding and what motivated the men who fought for America's
0:53.7	independence from British rule?
0:55.7	It's the kind of nuance and challenging look at history the Trump administration is actively
0:59.8	fighting against. But Burns and Bostein also make it clear there's still plenty of reasons
1:04.9	to celebrate our country's origin story, even if it is way more messy and brutal than we'd like
1:09.9	to acknowledge. I am a huge fan
1:12.7	of him. He's just a really interesting and complex person himself and quite, I would say patriotic,
1:18.7	one of the more patriotic people I've ever met. I studied history in college and I really
1:24.0	enjoyed this series. I think the most surprising thing to me was the depiction of Washington for as much as I do understand his complexity.
1:31.5	He was even more complex than I thought.
1:33.5	And I think it's one of the best depictions of one of America's most important citizens.
1:38.5	All right.
	...

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