Hey folks, this is Mark Devine with the Unbeatable Mind Podcast.

Thanks so much for joining me.

Welcome back if you're a longtime listener, super appreciate you being here.

If you like this show, please refer it to your friends, family, peers, and it's very

helpful if you rate it, especially on iTunes, go rate it, we have a thousand five star reviews,

it really helps other people to find the podcast for credibility.

So please rate this podcast and refer it, really appreciate that.

I am really excited today to talk to Katie Milkman.

She is an award-winning professor at Wharton, one of the incredible school that Katie has

a podcast called Choiceology and she's got a new book out called How to Change and so

she's a change expert.

So I'm really excited to have you here, Katie.

This is a subject that's kind of near and dear to my heart.

So thank you and thank you for your contribution to this important discussion about behavioral

change and making the world a more positive place.

So let's talk a little bit, let's start with like how you got interested in this subject

and where did that come from.

Right?

What is something you studied or is an academic pursuit or you know, how did you get into

this?

Yeah, so it's the subject of my 20 years of research roughly since I began in academia.

But I didn't get into it because of research, I think I got into it because I was doing

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