Welcome to Off Message. I'm Isaac Dover.

I mean, I was told point blank by someone who works for him that if it makes him look good, the president will be unhappy because the president is very much aware of what's going on all the time.

And he's, you know, he doesn't want to be overshadowed by his vice president.

And that's often the case, but it's exaggerated now.

Today's guest, Kate Anderson Brower, author of the new book, First in Line.

Kate's book is a look at vice presidents in their relationships going back to Eisenhower and Nixon.

But with so much attention

these days to the current vice president, Mike Pence, and the last vice president, Joe Biden,

this was a great way of digging in on them, getting more of a sense of who each of them are,

who President Trump and President Obama are, and what the future might hold for everyone involved.

What if, say, there's a Pence versus Biden presidential election coming while we discussed

all of that.

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Email me your thoughts at Isaac at politico.com and follow me on Twitter at Isaac Dover.

You've got so much more great stuff coming.

And now, my conversation with Kate Anderson Brow. So the other day, Donald Trump Jr. tweeted a photo of Mount Rushmore

and he circled a spot and he said something like we're waiting for President Trump.

I wonder, what is your sense of how President Trump sees himself within the history of presidents,

within that club and how he relates to them?

I think that's a really interesting question.

I think that he clearly sees himself apart from them. And he often tweets very critically of his predecessors, which is unprecedented. Usually you, you know, and not just Obama. Others too. Yeah. Bush. And I mean, there's some deference to the people who came before you. And I think he sees himself as more like Ronald Reagan.

...