Before we start, this episode contains some chat that might be triggering for some listeners.

If that sounds like it might apply to you, do check the show notes for more details.

Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me, Fern Cotton.

This is the show that allows you the headspace to unpack some pretty tricky topics.

Absolutely zero judgement here.

Today I'm chatting to June Saapong about why we all need to step back and check out unconscious behaviours sometimes.

In that moment I was able to really understand this issue from the other side.

As a black woman, as a working class woman, I'd always looked at it as being on the receiving end

as opposed to doing it myself and I thought, oh my God, that's what happens.

When you meet someone that you perceive as different yourself, there's like a disconnect that sets in

and like a wall that goes up.

And even though I had been campaigning for years that we needed to make our industry much more inclusive, blah, blah, blah.

When the status quo was challenged, even I had to adjust.

I caught up with June just a couple of weeks ago, although it feels like so much longer because it was snowing at the time and now look.

Look what we are now, spring is springing.

Anyway, I can't wait for you to hear our chat.

Tom Hanks is Otto. He's seen it all. Otto? Otto?

O-T-T-O. You don't hear that name very often, I do.

He's a man who gets easily annoyed. What are you doing?

Parallel parking. Parallel the walkie has had enough.

Are you always this unfriendly?

I am not unfriendly.

...