This is an I-Heart podcast.

Hi, I'm Molly JongFast, and this is Fast Politics, where we discuss the top political headlines with some of today's best minds.

We are on vacation, but that doesn't mean we don't have a fabulous show for you today.

Sister-in-law's own Joyce fans stops by to talk about her new

buff. Giving up is unforgivable, a manual for keeping a democracy. Then we'll talk to Julian

Brave Nois Cat about his new book. We Survive the Night. Welcome to fast politics, choice fans.

Thank you for having me.

I love you.

Like, I know.

It's so mutual.

People find it very annoying when I like say how much I love the guest, so I won't say it.

But you're a person who a lot of people love because you're smart.

You have had these really important jobs in government,

and you also are fucking brave. So explain to us what this book is. It's a little bit different.

It's not a Trump book. It's something completely different. Talk to us about giving up is

unforgivable. Yeah. So I'm not sure I deserve the

introduction, but thank you. I bet everybody remembers that moment after the election when

Kamala Harris lost and people seemed ready to just give up. They had given it everything that

they hadn't worked. You know, people were gobsmacked by that. My fear in that

moment was that it would become easy to walk away from democracy as a failed experiment. And I

thought the consequences of walking away, especially with the specter of second Trump presidency,

were very dire. And so I began looking for points in our history where it looked like the rule of law had just not been up to the task of preserving democracy.

...