Hey, this is Durey.

I welcome the part to the people.

On this episode, we're airing a conversation that happened about a month ago between me and

Brené Brown, the incredible social worker and academic who helps us think about shame,

vulnerability and guilt in her work.

She's the fifth most watched-tank talk of all time.

And in this conversation, we talk about the intersection of that work and justice and

race.

There is something seductive about criticism.

And people think that that's the contribution.

That my contribution is the pylon.

My contribution is to make fun of people who are trying but getting pushed down.

That is such a safe way to move through the world right now, especially.

And people don't understand that joy is the most vulnerable emotion that we experience.

We are more vulnerable than fear or shame.

We're terrified of joy because when we let ourselves feel joy, we're so afraid we'll

get sucker punched by pain.

And so what we do when something joyful comes along is we dress rehearse tragedy or we

diminish it.

Also, it's the news with me, Clint and Sam.

Before we start though, like I'm always mindful that like our work is to find the gift

and the other day, I had to wait a really long time to go into this thing.

...