You are a human animal.

You are a very special breed,

or you are the only animal.

Who can think, who can reason, who can read?

Hi, this is Michael Silverblad, and welcome to Bookworm.

Today, my guest is Joseph Heller,

the author most recently of Cozing Time,

which is a successor of sorts to Catch 22.

The author, of course, as well,

if something happened, good as gold,

God knows, no laughing matter, picture this,

and now Cozing Time.

I thought I'd begin by asking, of all the many sad and painful jokes you've told over your

career, which do you think is the saddest?

I don't tell jokes.

I don't tell jokes.

I don't listen to jokes.

In closing time, I think you're sad. He says he can't stand jokes. I don't listen to jokes. In closing time, I think your saviant says he can't stand jokes.

I write novels, and in the novels, there are jokes.

And if people make jokes in a novel, they're often very bad jokes, deliberately so, to help characterize the person.

Are you asking what's the worst joke, I told?

No, the saddest.

...