Joscha Bach and Ben Goertzel: When Will AI Become Conscious?

Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal

Curt Jaimungal

Physics, Philosophy, Society & Culture, Science

4.6 • 606 Ratings

🗓️ 17 October 2023

⏱️ 120 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Joscha Bach and Ben Goertzel explore cognitive architectures, the nature of consciousness, and the prospects for artificial general intelligence. Their conversation weaves through language paradoxes, Zen concepts, and the limits of large language models as steps toward AGI.- 00:00:00 - Introduction- 00:02:23 - Computation vs Awareness- 00:06:11 - The paradox of language and self-contradiction- 00:10:05 - The metaphysical categories of Charles Peirce- 00:13:00 - Zen Buddhism's category of zero- 00:14:18 - Carl Jung's interpretation of four- 00:21:22 - Language as "representation"- 00:28:48 - Computational reality vs AGI- 00:33:06 - Consciousness in particles- 00:44:18 - Anesthesia and consciousness: Joscha's personal perspective- 00:54:36 - Levels of consciousness levels (panpsychism vs functionalism)- 00:56:23 - Deep neural nets & LLMs as steps backward from AGI?- 01:05:04 - Emergent properties of LLMs- 01:12:26 - Turing-completeness and its implications- 01:15:08 - OpenAI's bold claims challenged- 01:24:24 - Future of AGI- 01:31:58 - Intelligent species after human extinction- 01:36:33 - Emergence of a cosmic mind- 01:43:56 - The timeline to AGI development- 01:52:16 - The physics of immortality- 01:54:00 - Critique of Integrated Information Theory (pseudoscience?)SPONSORS:- Patreon: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal (early access to ad-free audio episodes!)- Crypto: https://tinyurl.com/cryptoTOE- PayPal: https://tinyurl.com/paypalTOE- Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt- Discord Invite: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs- iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast...- Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP- Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b9...- Subreddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeveryt...- TOE Merch: https://tinyurl.com/TOEmerchRESOURCES:- YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw7omaQ8SgA- OpenCog (Ben's Ai company): https://opencog.org- SingularityNET (Ben's Decentralized Ai company): https://singularitynet.io- Podcast w/ Joscha Bach on TOE: https://youtu.be/3MNBxfrmfmI- Podcast w/ Ben Goertzel on TOE: https://youtu.be/27zHyw_oHSI- Podcast w/ Michael Levin and Joscha on TOE: https://youtu.be/kgMFnfB5E_A- Podcast w/ John Vervaeke and Joscha on TOE: https://youtu.be/rK7ux_JhHM4- Podcast w/ Donald Hoffman and Joscha on TOE: https://youtu.be/bhSlYfVtgww Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal features long-form, technically detailed interviews with leading researchers in physics, mathematics, consciousness, and philosophy, exploring topics at the level of active research. For academics, graduate students, and anyone seeking depth beyond popular science. SPONSOR: I personally subscribe to The Economist. TOE listeners get 35% off the annual subscription. No other podcast has this! https://economist.com/TOE FOLLOW: Substack | Spotify | YouTube | Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	The first breakthrough to incontrovertibly human-level AGI to a superintelligence is months to years.
0:06.0	Will that be good or bad for humanity?
0:08.0	To me, these are less clear than what I think is the probable timeline.
0:14.0	Yosha Bach is known for his insights into consciousness and cognitive architectures,
0:18.0	and Ben Gortzel is the seminal figure in the world of artificial
0:21.2	general intelligence, and known for his work on open cog.
0:25.0	Both are coming together here on theories of everything for a theolocussion.
0:29.1	A theolocation is an advancement of knowledge, couched both in tenderness and regard,
0:33.6	rather than the usual tendency of debates, which is characterized by trying to be correct
0:38.2	even to the detriment of the other person, maybe even destructively, maybe even sardonically.
0:43.2	We have a foray in this episode into semantics and Pierce's signed theory.
0:47.0	This also extends into what it truly takes to build a conscious AGI.
0:51.9	An AGI is an artificial general intelligence, which mimics human-like intelligence.
0:56.8	But then the question lingers, what about consciousness?
0:59.1	What differentiates mere computation from awareness?
1:02.2	Man, this was a fascinating discussion, and there will definitely be a part two.
1:06.5	Recall the system here on tow, which is, if you have a question for any of the guests, whether here or on a different podcast, you leave a comment with the word query and a colon. And this way, when I'm searching for the next part with the guest, I can just press Control F, and I can find it easily in the YouTube studio back end. And then I'll cite your name either aloud, verbally, or in the description. To those of you who are new to
1:29.1	this channel, my name is Kurt Jai Mungal, and this is theories of everything, where we explore usually physics and
1:34.3	mathematics related theories of everything. How do you reconcile quantum mechanics with general relativity,
1:38.9	for instance? That's the standard archetype of the toe. But also, more generally, where does
1:43.2	consciousness come in,
1:44.3	what role does it have to play in fundamental law, is fundamental, quote-unquote, the correct
	...

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