What it means is the best opportunity for distressed has been microcycles. Go back during just my

career and Scott's career when the muny market got blown up because of some choice words said

by a famous analyst after the financial crisis, even the European kind of double-dip recession

in the peripheral countries, Then the energy microcycle in

2015-16, the California power microcycle, which most of California was impacted by in many

counterparties. When Amazon and online retail upended mall-based retail and mall-based real

estate, then after COVID, what we've seen in telecom, we're seeing now in housing,

we could see in software, it means when a whole industry that has a lot of debt is impacted

by either technological, transformation, or policy volatility, or both. And handling things

when you have a lot of debt is the problem.

I'm Ted Sides, and this is capital allocators. My guest on today's show is Jonathan Lewinson,

co-managing partner of Diameter Capital Partners,

a credit-focused investment firm he founded with Scott Goodwin in 2017 that manages $25 billion,

cross-hedge fund, dislocation, CLO, and direct lending strategies.

Jonathan last appeared on the show five years ago, interviewed by Kristen Van Gelder from

Evanston Capital, and that conversation is replayed in the feed.

Our conversation offers a comprehensive credit market update, including Jonathan's take on the

business of credit investing, private credit, industry microcycles in AI, housing,

telecom, chemicals, and healthcare, competition among creditors, the insurance-driven investment

grade market, and the importance of macro awareness in credit investing.

John's blend of investment insights and market opportunities is a real treat, and comes on the

occasion of a likely public listing of a diameter BDC.

...