This is the reason interview with Nick Gillespie.

My guest today is Jonah Goldberg.

He's the editor-in-chief of the dispatch, and he is a long time, a 20-year LA Times columnist,

CNN contributor, two-time New York Times bestseller, creator of National Review Online.

And I suspect by the end of this interview, you will be a self-declared

libertarian. Jonah Goldberg, thanks for talking to reason. It's great to be here, Nick. It's always

fun to hear you return to your proselytizing ways. Oh, yes. Yes. One never knows when the mustard seed will bloom, right? Yeah. I'm more like

Zeno's arrow, right? Gino's arrow. Always gets closer and closer, but I just never quite getting

going full libertarian. It's there on the horizon. But one of the things, one of the reasons I

wanted to talk with you, particularly over, you know, in this moment, and we had scheduled this before the Iran war started.

But you have been, and people at the dispatch, which, and correct me, if I'm wrong, started and launched fully early in 2020, and it's part of a

remnant group of weekly standard people as well as other conservatives like yourself who left

national review. And you've been a strong, strong critic of Donald Trump and of the kind of direction of both

the conservative movement or parts of it and the Republican Party.

So it's very good to be talking to you right now.

It's great to be here.

I could quibble.

I don't think it's of much interest about some of the description.

I think we really launched

2019 and we we don't see ourselves as just sort of like Japanese soldiers keeping the flame of

the weekly standard and National Review alive. We've kind of broadened our ambit a bit, but we

still are definitely center right. But we have some center-left

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